Interview with Dave Klein
by Paul Nison
September, 2001

This interview is from Paul Nison’s forthcoming book, Raw Knowledge:
Enhance The Powers of Your Mind, Body and Soul. It will be available at /www.rawlife.com

Dave, how many years have you been on the raw diet?

As of October, 2001 I have been mostly raw for seventeen years. I was 99% raw the first 8 years and 100% raw the last 9 years up until now.

How was your health when you started the diet?

My health was in unimaginable shambles after eight years of severe ulcerative colitis, from age 18 till 26. I had chronic inflammation and ulcerations in my colon, many bloody spasmodic bowel movements each day, chronic fatigue, demineralization, ervousness, allergies, poor skin, cloudy thinking, and not much of a life. In the eighth year my gastroenterologist recommended that I consider having my colon surgically removed. Many months earlier I had discovered Natural Hygiene and raw food eating; it made no sense to me then, but gradually it became more and more sensible. One glorious evening a week after the doctor’s suggestion of surgery, self-healing and raw food eating all made sense. I divorced myself from medical intervention, stopped taking medicines and plunged into a fruit-based 80% raw food diet and I healed up rapidly and discovered new joy in living. After a few months I reduced the cooked food to the point where I rarely ate it, and with exercise, adequate rest and sleep and other healthful lifestyle factors went on to experience a higher level of health than I though possible after several years of rebuilding. Now I enjoy inspiring others on their path to health through my Colitis & Crohn’s Health Recovery Center business, which I direct (www.colitis-crohns.com), via my booklet Self Healing Colitis & Crohn’s, via the raw food lifestyle magazine I publish, Living Nutrition (www.livingnutrition.com.), and book I
recently published, Your Natural Diet: Alive Raw Foods by Dr. T. C. Fry & David Klein.

Who has been some people who have inspired you to do this?

Laurence Galant, Ph.D., a Doctor of Natural Hygiene based in Staten Island, was the health counselor who introduced me to natural hygiene and raw food eating. He gave me materials by Dr. T. C. Fry and Dr. Herbert Shelton, and they became the biggest influences in my health recover and rejuvenation. Dr. T. C. Fry gave me great ncouragement, and later on I became involved in promoting his hygiene magazine, and following his death I began carrying on his work though Living Nutrition.

Is there any one person who has inspired you the most?

Dr. T. C. Fry. He had an uncanny way of presenting health sense on paper which just bowled me over with enthusiasm and set my passion for teaching others on fire. Many people have echoed this. He had a huge heart, an amazing intellect, and was a hero to many.

Over the years you have learned so much. What are a few of the most
important things you have learned?

I could write for hours on this subject! In my booklet The Art of Rejuvenation, I sum up much of what I have learnt about self-healing, rejuvenation and health maintenance, i.e., we need to 1. Start with a healing vision; 2. Investigate, understand, and properly apply the principle of self-healing (step out of the way, rest and allow the body to detoxify, regenerate and ejuvenate); 3. Eat our natural biological diet: properly combined, raw foods, mostly fruit; 4. Free our lives of energy draining stress; 5. Get appropriate regular exercise; 6. Cultivate self-awareness (or mindfulness); and 7. Be passionate about wellness, expressing healthful thoughts with emotion to catalyze the rejuvenation/health process.

Are there any pitfalls that you have learned to watch out for on the raw diet?

Here are a few. I believe it is erroneous to place healing faith in raw food because the laws of physiology show us that the body does all of the healing work, acting on and using food nutrients. Food does not act on the body and heal us. Our thoughts about food can heal us. Other pitfalls I have learned include: 1. Eating too much dried fruit is ruinous to the teeth and unbalancing to our poise; 2. Eating too much sweet watery fruit is also unbalancing (I eat it with neutral green foods such as cucumbers, celery and lettuce to stay balanced); and 3. Our emotions need to be understood, honored, embraced, and, where needed, resolved, in order for us to overcome unhealthful patterns including emotional overeating.

Weight loss is a big pitfall for many people, any thoughts about that?

To be successful at raw food eating and truly healthy, I firmly believe that we should study human physiology. The Natural Hygiene health science books by Dr. Herbert Shelton, old Natural Hygiene course by Dr. T. C. Fry and new one by Dr. Robert Sniadach, teach us how the body functions in health and disease, what detoxification weightloss is about, why and how the body will regain weight after we are cleaned out, how the body uses food and creates energy, as well as other bodily processes and needs. People need to understand that when we eat an enzymatically active raw food diet, their nutritious, energizing sugars cause the body to spring into action, utilizing much of its energy in cleaning house: purging debris, shedding old inferior cells, and using the new raw nutrients to build a completely new, healthier body. In order to avoid the drastic cleansing, with its accompanying symptoms, that takes place when the transition is made too quickly, a gradual transition is prudent.

Detoxification is a self-purifying process which the body carries out continuously, most aggressively during the early to late morning hours. “Detox” entails 1. the cells off-loading metabolic wastes and environmental toxins into the bloodstream for filtering by the liver and kidneys for elimination, and 2. the organs of elimination (bowels, kidneys, lungs, skin, vagina) releasing metabolic, environmental and residual food wastes via feces, urine, breath, sweat and menses. Toxins are also expectorated in mucus via the throat and sinuses. The body is a magnificently designed masterpiece of self-regulation and self-healing, always striving to establish and maintain purity and wellness. There is no way around weightloss--the body needs to eliminate old stores of waste, inferior cells, and some muscle mass.

People need to slow down and take extra rest the first few months of raw food eating as much of the body’s energy is being used to build an all new healthy body. Inconjunction with the heightened detoxification action, the body works at repairing any damage, regenerating new cells, rejuvenating and restoring wellness. The repair work mostly occurs when we sleep. When there is damage to be repaired and rejuvenation to be accomplished, the body needs extra sleep. We typically feel weak and need plenty of extra sleep at the beginning stage of the rejuvenation phase. If the toxemia, physical damage, degeneration and emotional distress is severe, this phase may last for weeks or months. It is important to understand that the symptoms of the detoxification and rejuvenation process signify the workings of the awesome rejuvenative power of the body. It will help the process if we appreciate the workings of the body and do everything possible to assist it in its healing processes. We can do this by taking a break or a sabbatical from our normal routines, obtaining plenty of extra sleep and rest--if necessary, complete rest--as well as eating simply, until the work is sufficiently accomplished and we experience new vigor and vitality. If we persevere through the uncomfortable detox symptoms and weightloss and live healthfully, we’ll be able to regain weight, build lean muscle, maintain a stronger body, and in the process, learn invaluable lessons about how the body works to create dynamic health. Remember to be patient; Rome was not built in one day.

Teeth problems are another big pitfall. Any thoughts?

Indeed. I learned the hard way. I ate too much sweet dried fruit during my first few years, and my already demineralized teeth suffered. I developed many cavities and ended up with many crowns. In the mid 1990s I was fortunate to have met a superb physiologist and raw fooder, Dr. Thomas Stone, a dentist specializing in full dental restoration in San Francisco. Tom teaches that during the detox phase we should monitor our saliva pH, to watch for high acidity which will dissolve dental enamel. During detox the body dumps acids into our saliva and other bodily fluids. When the pH is lower than around 6.5, indicating acidity, we can neutralize the acid by rinsing the mouth several times per day with a watery solution of sea salt. Sea salt can be purchased in a healthfood store and added to a glasses of water.

Tom also teaches that we can help the body replace lost dental enamelwith a new mineral surface by eating mineral-rich foods and supplementing with sea algaes (such as dulse) and/or micro-algaes (such as spirulina). The minerals we digest will increase the mineral content of our saliva which provides minerals for the surface of our teeth. I highly recommend rinsing all sea salt off of sea vegetables because NaCl
impairs metabolic functions and causes other problems. Several years I noticed ridges developing at the top of my front teeth, and after reading what Dr. T. C. Fry wrote about about the mineralizing benefits of dulse in the diet, I added rinsed dulse to my diet regularly for two years and feel that the ridges are no worse and might have filled in a bit.

I’ve also learned that it is very important to floss or pick one’s teeth one to several times per day to keep the gums healthy.

Lastly, I believe it is wise to eat greens, celery and/or cucumber with and/or after eating sweet fruit to keep the teeth cleaner.

What is you opinion about mercury fillings and what would you replace them with?

I had all eight or so of my metal fillings replaced with composites right after I went raw. My mind became a bit clearer and my jaw felt lighter after that. As the dentist forewarned, the composites developed micro cracks which led to more cavities, necessitating crowns. Gold and porcelain crowns are the best we can do as far as I understand. Dr. Tom Stone informed me that any foreign material in out mouth can be toxic and disruptive to our natural energy field.

What is your opinion about the following:

Nuts & Seeds

They are important in the diet, more so for people who live in climates where the winters are cold. However, I do not believe that we need to eat them regularly unless we are engaged in heavy exercise and want to maintain large muscle mass. The body recycles about 80 percent of its protein. Nuts and seeds are difficult to digest and probably best eaten after germinating 12 hours or so in water. I love fresh walnuts that II gather here in northern California in November and December. But they go rancid a few months after harvest. Except for almonds, which I eat once or twice per month year round, I typically eat nuts only in the winter. Avocado and durian supply more easily digested fat in my diet year round.

Grains

Cooked grains were the last cooked food attachment I let go of, eight years after going mostly raw. I observed that I was eating them a few times per year simply for emotional comfort reasons. They always sedated me, caused mucus production, fatigue and brain fog the next time I ate fruit. I experimented with sprouted grains and found them to taste bland, lead to overeating, and produce the same problems as cooked grains. I believe that they are of no benefit in the diet; all of the nutrients we need for optimum health can be obtained in raw fruit, vegetables, seeds and nuts.

Fruitarianism

Our biological, anatomical, and physiological nature, design and disposition shows that our natural diet is mostly fruit. We can say that we are naturally frugivores. I also believe that our spiritual essence shines through best on a fruit-based diet. In practice,
fruitarianism is about following our natural instincts, which I believe, after we clean out and become clear of mind and senses, will lead us to eat a diet of sweet fruits, non-sweet fruits, green leaves, celery, and some seeds and nuts when we crave fat and feel cold. A diet of 75 to 95 percent sweet fruits is generally what a person who calls himself a fruitarian eats. I believe that a diet of all sweet fruits is unbalancing and unhealthy. I feel that greens and cucumbers are very important in the diet for those who live a modern lifestyle. Perhaps those who live in the tropics and can enjoy a stress-free life can thrive on all fruit. I founded the Fruitarian Worldwide Network to educate the world about how to eat fruit and to help support and connect fruit lovers. Our web site is at www.fruitariannetwork.com. My most vivacious friends eat mostly fruit and many of us have overcome killer diseases,.

Sprouts

I occasionally enjoy sunflower greens and sprouted sunflower seeds in a salad. However, I don’t sense a need for sprouts in my diet and find sprouting to be too tedious. I feel it is good for all raw fooders to experiment with sprouting and enjoy what feels good.

Natural Hygiene

Natural Hygiene is an organized philosophy and practice of following our senses and living naturally, in according with the laws of nature. Hygiene is literally the science of health. I and many others feel that studying texts and courses in Natural Hygiene provides the best educational foundation for raw food enthusiasts. My studies and application of Natural Hygiene principles saved my life 17 years ago. Through Natural Hygiene we learn physiology, and its application in life. Raw foodism, placing all kinds of faith in raw food and centering one’s life around eating, can become delusional. Conversely, if we understand how the body works and all of the mind-body’s requisites of health, we will become more balanced and healthy than if we just focus on the food aspect. I recently co-founded the new Natural Hygiene organization, Healthful Living International. Our web site is at www.healthfullivingintl.org. We plan to rekindle the great heritage of Natural Hygiene and lead the movement through the 21st Century. We put on Raw Passion seminars, with Paul Nison and others, to teach simple raw
food eating and healthful living.

Supplements

I believe that the best nutritional “supplement” is a glass of fresh made organic carrot juice, or any combination of vegetable juice with fresh carrots. Powdered supplements don’t come close to the benefits we receive from live juices, and they can be costly, stimulating and delusional. However, many people are mineral deficient and need more trace minerals. They can more quickly make up mineral deficiencies using rinsed soft sea vegetables such as dulse, and /or spirulina powder with vegetable salads or vegetable juices. Spirulina has given me great benefits along with rinsed dulse. Now I rarely use them.

Some vegan intestinal flora products are beneficial when people with severe bowel toxemia are in the rejuvenation phase. I don’t feel that they are essential or necessary on a regular basis.

Eating seasonally

If that feels good and is possible, then it is the way to proceed. I eat seasonal raw foods while eating some tropical or hot climate foods year round (bananas, oranges, dates, avocados) and that works great for me.

Fasting

The only definition of fasting I go by is living on water and no food or juices while getting complete rest. Fasting has saved countess lives. It gives the body its best opportunity to detoxify, heal and rejuvenate. Our mind becomes clearest while fasting. I feel that everyone should learn about fasting properly through Dr. Shelton's books or other Natural Hygiene educators and doctors.

Food combining on a 100% raw diet and is it necessary?

I believe it is absolutely necessary if one has the goal of becoming clean inside and truly healthy. For people with weak or moderate digestion, it is essential in my opinion. Those with strong digestion generally do not appreciate the value of properly combining their foods. I believe that later on in life they will find that it is necessary. From what I have observed and experienced, those who eat haphazardly
have, to an extent, toxic bowels and blood and clouded senses. Simple eating is unquestionably the easiest way for our digestive system and keep us cleanest inside.

Physical exercise

I believe that we all need to be active and enjoy several types of exercise. I feel that light jogging or running is very important for fitness and health, and believe that if we do not exercise then we don’t need to eat much. Many raw fooders eat and eat and do not exercise to “earn their calories.” If we eat when the body has no need for nutrients, we become toxic, sluggish, unbalanced and age faster than normal. Vigorous exercise feel delicious and in my opinion is essential for folks who eat.

Wild foods

If they can be practically obtained then they will serve the body well. If they cannot be obtained, superior health can still be built on a properly combined organic raw food diet.

Emotions

Understanding our emotions, our emotional nature, our emotional reasons for all of our behaviors including eating, and practicing emotional awareness is vital and so rewarding for raw fooders as well as anyone. Some raw food educators are now discovering this and helping people with eating disorders and other unhealthful emotional patterns transform their lives. I believe that most of our eating is emotionally driven. That is not necessarily bad, but most people tend to overeat even though they are well nourished. I believe that there are two reasons why people overeat :
1. They want to cover up an uncomfortable emotion and feel something different; and
2. they feel emotionally empty and cannot tolerate the emptiness.

Food brings nice feelings to the body, and often helps us feel love. However, love is always present in the body. It is wonderfully liberating to avoid food and delve into the love feelings when we feel a need for food comfort. There is some new good information about emotions and emotional resolution coming out in the professional counselor’s community, and through Living Nutrition Magazine we teach emotional tools for transformation. Working at knowing our emotional selves can be very liberating, and I highly recommend working on this. I personally teach the “somatic inquiry”, a meditative tool for inquiring into our appetites and learning about our true needs and deepest nature.

What is your age and height and weight and talk about how your weight
has changed and other changes your body has went through. How did you
handle it?

I am 43, 5 foot 8 inches tall and weigh 130 pounds. I began raw eating when I was sickly with ulcerative colitis. My weight went down to 116 pounds as I detoxed, then up to 124 after 3 years. In my case, the detox symptoms were less of a problem than the illness symptoms, which of course included detox. Being so thin was mentally and emotional difficult, but I persevered because I knew that was the only way to regain my health and life. In the beginning, I healed up so quickly that I was jumping with joy and thus did not let the weightloss completely bother me because I felt better and knew the weightloss was temporary. I am obviously not big now at 130 pounds but I feel more energetic than ever and have built think leg muscles from running every day.

Did you ever get really sick or have a bad detox.

In my case, I was sick and detoxing when I began. I quickly became healthy and felt more and more youthful as the detox and nourishment proceeded. During the fist year I had brief periods of feeling down and some mild headaches, which I attributed to detox cycles. I rode them out by sleeping more, and they disappeared for good.

Do you eat 100% raw foods, if so for how long, if not how much do you
eat? If not why, and what do you eat that is cooked?

Yes, I have been 100% raw since I lost all attachment to cooked food about 9 years ago. It seems that remineralizing my body with some sea vegetables and spirulina helped me become 100% raw.

What is your average daily diet like, what do you eat and how often?

I typically eat citrus for breakfast after I have gone for a short jog. I usually follow that with a few bananas, or dates and either cucumbers or greens. Some mornings I have melon. I strive to eat lightly in the morning and eat no earlier than 9:00 a.m. Eating breakfast after 11:00 a.m. is my goal. I then eat small meals of sweet fruits and or cucumbers 3 or 4 times per day. About one to three times per week I have an avocado. In the summer I have raw corn or tomato meals with cucumbers, bell peppers, and/or greens. I usually eat two heads of lettuce per day or some celery. About once very two or three weeks in the warmer months and several days a week in the winter I have nuts with cucumbers and/or greens. About once per month I make juicy carrot pulp in my Champion juicer and eat that plain, or with broccoli pulp. Sometimes I mash avocado into the vegetable pulp--that makes a hearty meal! When I was rebuilding I made fresh juices often, however, I rarely make juices now because it gives too much of a sugar rush, but I’d like to get into a routine of drinking a small glass of carrot-veggie juice once per day because it feels so nourishing and is great for my skin and hair.

What is your favorite food?

That is not easy to answer, but I’d say durian. If I have an empty stomach and am energetic and craving something sweet, a honeydew melon, fresh deglet or medjhool dates, sapote, sapodillo, mamea, or durian can be ecstatic. Many fruits are delightful. If I crave something fatty, almonds, pecans, pistachios, or avocado can do it for me. If I crave something light and refreshing, salad mix or cucumbers can be exquisitely refreshing and even energizing. If I crave something salty, fresh heirloom tomatoes can make an awesome meal.

Of all of the foods what do you think is the most important?

Bananas are the #1 staple food in my diet. I have eaten over 50,000 of them in the last 17 years and after each one have felt great. In my opinion they are probably the most perfect food for humans, based on nutritional content, easy utility, aesthetic appeal, availability and economy. Cucumbers and oranges are also staples in my diet.

How is your health and energy?

Excellent, provided that I keep myself well rested. Working too much tends to drag me down, so I strive to avoid overworking and keep myself energized and happy.

How much sleep do you get and what do you think is necessary?

Seven to eight hours. When I take great care of myself and eat lightly, I wake up at 4:00 - 5:00 a.m. refreshed and full of energy on about six or seven hours of sleep. When I eat nuts or avocado I sleep more.

What changes have you noticed mentally?

Before I began raw eating, my brain power was impaired, running at a low capacity. I was very malnourished and fatigued from a lifetime of poor eating and eight years of illness (ulcerative colitis), medications, toxicosis and psycho-emotional trauma--I was miserable most of the time. A few days after I began the raw fruit-based diet, my senses and mind began rejuvenating and my spirit began to soar. My mind became clear, my memory improved and went on to be greater than ever, and my gloom was replaced by joy and vitality. I’ve overcome writer’s block and feel far better about my whole self now.

Many people just getting into a raw diet have problems because their
mates don't want to change. Any comments or suggestions on this?

It appears important for partners to share common health goals and support each other, especially if they are at different levels. If one partner is unhappy with the other not changing, and if one or neither is getting their needs met, then counseling is usually a good avenue to take. If it becomes clear to a couple that their chemistry is not right, their goals are different, and their needs are not being met, then a
conscious decision to separate might be best thing to do.

Has your attitude towards sex changed over the years?

Too much sex is enervating for males, even raw fooders. For me, raw living is a conscious living path, offering the opportunity to look at my habits and become more mindful about sex, as well as other aspects of my lifestyle. Conscious sex, shared by lovers with clean bodies, unstimulated by meat. coffee, drugs, powerfoods (including raw ones) can be an extra-special experience. I’ve found that my need for sex has diminished because I feel great most of the time and don’t seek the extra high as often as I used to. My libido is still strong at age 43, but not as high as before. That feels somewhat liberating, opening me up to feeling love even more than before.

Do you think it is harder for a woman to eat a raw diet? Why?

From what I have observed, males generally have an easier time transitioning and staying raw. I believe that females generally have a more difficult time because of their more emotional nature and because eating is such an emotional issue. Understanding one’s emotional nature at a deep level, and one’s relationship with food and other cravings can help make the process easier. Working with a supportive counselor who understands the physio-psycho-emotional dynamics of health can be very helpful.

Why do you think there are more raw men than raw woman?

Because of the more emotional nature of females and because our society is so stressful, creating so many issues around food and appearance. Unresolved emotional issues affect any raw fooder’s progress on the path.

What is you opinion about the female menstruation cycle when being on the
raw diet?

I have heard that many women’s periods diminish, become lighter and, in some cases, stop, temporarily or for good on the 100% raw food diet. This suggests to me that the cleaner the diet, the cleaner the body and lesser the need for detoxification.

Do you feel it is natural and ok not to bleed during a women's period
or should there be blood?

I don’t know why a perfectly healthy, completely detoxified female should bleed. Some people have suggested that it is an adaptation from humanity’s 20,000 or so years of cooked food eating.

Any comments about PMS and the Raw Diet?

PMS and menstrual difficulties cease after one has cleaned out and adopted a healthful eating style, not too high in acid-forming foods.

Any comments about pregnancy and the raw diet?

I am not a parent, so I don’t have any experience to offer. However, I have heard a few raw food mothers say that their child birthing was far easier compared to when they ate cooked food.

Would you like to add anything?

Transforming our health and eating habits is a process which takes education, time, patience, self-nurturing and support. It takes years (it took me 8) for most people to get beyond cooked food cravings and emotional issues, and that is OK--we are all perfect just as we are. Raw food eating mastery is an ongoing process for everyone--I am still working on the emotional component and learning more about myself after 17 years at it. Although I eat 100% raw foods, life has not become perfect for me--there are a lot of issues I work on every day, including overeating, overstressing and keeping balanced.

Food is just food, and eating raw foods is just one of the many ingredients in our health recipe. Raw food provides nutrients and sensorial delight when we are hungry; food does not heal us--our body heals when we change our thoughts and unhealthful behavior. A wise person said, “Eat to live; don’t live to eat.” My friend Morris Krok says, “There is no magic in raw food.” As the years have gone by, I've increasingly found that consciously experiencing the joy of being with an empty stomach and clear mind can be far more exhilarating than any raw food indulgence.

So, I suggest that people enjoy their food, take a look at any fanatical behavior and judgements from within and from others, accept yourself as you are, and be good to yourself along the raw food path.

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Click here for Interview II